[pLog-svn] Process size
Jon Daley
plogworld at jon.limedaley.com
Thu Dec 14 16:37:14 GMT 2006
I don't know what it is. I would try adding a $ to the end of all
of your custom URLs.
I would then try adding a /? to the end (before the $) for URLs
where you want accept a trailing slash.
On Thu, 14 Dec 2006, Ayalon wrote:
> Yup, i know about the evil article, but for me it's more important to have
> nice url's then this.
>
> But my problems must be easy to fix no? There's just something wrong in the
> way the trailing slash in being used when we have wrong url's..
> Can we find out where this can be? Where are we handeling wrong url's? This
> must be something so simple, handling wrong url's going wrong with a / behind
> it or not.. Strange no?
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Daley" <plogworld at jon.limedaley.com>
> To: "Ayalon" <ayalon at blog.nl>
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 4:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [pLog-svn] Process size
>
>
> Right, it's possible, but note that he links to the "evil" article
> on the wiki as well.
>
> On Thu, 14 Dec 2006, Ayalon wrote:
>
>> Hi Jon,
>>
>> See this from phunk, he's also saying a lot of time ago that it's possible
>> the way i have it.
>>
>> http://forums.lifetype.net/viewtopic.php?t=2274&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=permalinks&start=15
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Daley"
>> <plogworld at jon.limedaley.com>
>> To: <plog-svn at devel.lifetype.net>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 3:49 PM
>> Subject: Re: [pLog-svn] Process size
>>
>>
>> In the logs you posted earlier, you can see all the accesses to
>> error.php. Why is that? Because you are using URLs that don't exist and
>> have to be caught by the ErrorDocument and redirected to error.php.
>> Your blog still works now, right? - maybe you just never had yahoo
>> grabbing bad urls before. Maybe LifeType is parsing the bad url
>> differently than it did before. Since it is a bad URL, I don't know how
>> one could define parsing it better - maybe it used to return a failure,
>> and now it going to whatever you have defined for a non-existent blog,
>> etc. I am not sure.
>> Did you read the wiki article I sent?
>>
>> Though, I find it strange that your pages are not returning 404
>> errors if that is really what is happening.
>>
>> Is there stuff in your apache error log?
>>
>> On Thu, 14 Dec 2006, Ayalon wrote:
>>
>>> Well what i did, as you can see in the previous screenshots, i removed all
>>> the /blog/{blogname} from the links. Thats it.
>>>
>>> In my htaccess is only the forcetype part and error.php part. No rewrite
>>> rules nothing..
>>>
>>> Why does those url's have to do a redirect? I don't understand, and with
>>> lifetype 1.0.6 and previous it was working perfectly. (i'm using lifetype
>>> for
>>> years;))
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Daley"
>>> <plogworld at jon.limedaley.com>
>>> To: "LifeType SVN" <plog-svn at devel.lifetype.net>
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 3:29 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [pLog-svn] Process size
>>>
>>>
>>> Ah - you don't have /category/{category} in your URLs.
>>> So
>>> http://amsterdam.blog.nl/toerist_in_eigen_stad/2006/12/12/economie-amsterdam-staat-er-goed-voor
>>> has to do a redirect. What is in your .htaccess? I am not seeing a 404
>>> returned, which means you either wrote some custom rules, or the
>>> modrewrite stuff is being matched.
>>>
>>> You have read this, right?
>>> http://wiki.lifetype.net/index.php/Custom_URLs#Why_removing_.2Fblog.2F_from_the_URLs_is_evil
>>>
>>> I bet if you put the URLs back to the defaults, your problem will go away.
>>>
>>> We should probably write a custom URL validator or something to check when
>>> people write bad URLs, though I am not sure how it is parsing it when you
>>> have the extra slash.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, 14 Dec 2006, Ayalon wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ok, yours is fixed, now my problem..
>>>>
>>>> A not excisting url with the format categorie/year/month/day/ is causing
>>>> memory errors..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Daley"
>>>> <plogworld at jon.limedaley.com>
>>>> To: <plog-svn at devel.lifetype.net>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 3:10 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [pLog-svn] Process size
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The slashes are now enabled, that is just a configuration choice,
>>>> and I hadn't ever noticed before.
>>>>
>>>> I changed them to:
>>>> category_link_format
>>>> /category/{catname}/?$
>>>>
>>>> archive_link_format
>>>> /archives/{year}/?{month}/?({day}/?)?
>>>>
>>>> actually, the archive format didn't work like that, because it started
>>>> generating URLs like:
>>>> http://jon.limedaley.com/plog/archives/2006/01//
>>>> which caused it to only show one day's worth of posts.
>>>> So, my archive_link_format is:
>>>> /archives/{year}/?{month}/?{day}?$
>>>>
>>>> slash removed to avoid the double slash problem, and the $ added to
>>>> distinguish from my permalink entry:
>>>> /archives/{year}/{month}/{day}/{postname}$
>>>>
>>>> Probably it was matching with a null postname or something.
>>>>
>>>> In all of that, though, I never had any memory problems. I believe I
>>>> have
>>>> it currently set to 16MB. This is enough to show lots of comments on one
>>>> page, but not to show thousands, and small enough to not kill the server
>>>> if lots of pages are viewed simultaneously.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 14 Dec 2006, Ayalon wrote:
>>>>> Using subdomain enabled, the rest is in the screenshot.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Jon:
>>>>>
>>>>> Also in your config there minor issues related to url's:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://jon.limedaley.com/plog/category/pregnancy will show the categorie
>>>>> http://jon.limedaley.com/plog/category/pregnancy/ is showing the main
>>>>> page
>>>>>
>>>>> At my situation yahoo bot is for some reason crawling:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://amsterdam.blog.nl/amsterdam/2006/12/07 (not a correct url, and
>>>>> shows
>>>>> mainpage)
>>>>> http://amsterdam.blog.nl/amsterdam/2006/12/07/ (not a correct url and
>>>>> gets
>>>>> a
>>>>> mem error)
>>>>>
>>>>> Obvious yahoo crawler is doing incorrect things, but this can't ofcourse
>>>>> get
>>>>> there serious errors...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Daley"
>>>>> <plogworld at jon.limedaley.com>
>>>>> To: <plog-svn at devel.lifetype.net>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 1:50 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [pLog-svn] Process size
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What are your custom URL settings set to? I can't duplicate this
>>>>> on my blog.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 14 Dec 2006, Ayalon wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> First i'm running freedbsd 6.0 with php 5.1.6 and apache 2.2.2
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The exact url, i make an exampe:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i'm running a subdomain config with straight categories behind it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> so: subdomain.domain.com/categorie
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This ofcourse excist, if i type a categorie behind it that doesn´t
>>>>>> excist
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> comes up with an error.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now i call a categorie but with a archive page look:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> subdomain.domain.com/categorie/year/month/date This works fine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But yahoo is searching it with a / behind the url:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> subdomain.domain.com/categorie/year/month/date/ The thing is that this
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> work, but if you put a / behind the url it's not working anymore and is
>>>>>> causing memory errors etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> for example:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://amsterdam.blog.nl/amsterdam/2006/12/07 works fine
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://amsterdam.blog.nl/amsterdam/2006/12/07/ gets errors in the log
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> out
>>>>>> of memory issues, please don't click it :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anybody an idea how to fix this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Renalias"
>>>>>> <oscar at renalias.net>
>>>>>> To: <plog-svn at devel.lifetype.net>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 9:51 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [pLog-svn] Process size
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can you provide the exact URLs? Or even better, the exact line(s) from
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> logs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How about your version of PHP? Are you running PHP 4 or PHP 5?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12/14/06, Ayalon <ayalon at blog.nl> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Found it!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Searched the logs for the yahoobot. It looks like yahoo is crawling a
>>>>>>>> lot
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> pages that don't exist.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> for example blogname.mydomain.com/categoryname/year/month/date
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> While a normal yahoo request is passing by normally. This page
>>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>>>> excist in my enviroment and this will cause some kind of loop in the
>>>>>>>> script
>>>>>>>> with eventually causing a lot of mem in php, a lot of buffering in
>>>>>>>> apache
>>>>>>>> etc. I looked in the php and apache forums and bug reports, but can't
>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>> anything. Is there something wrong in the way not excisting url's etc
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> being handled? Because i see in my logs normal request are also
>>>>>>>> handle
>>>>>>>> correct. Pages, and especially within subdirs are causing these
>>>>>>>> problems..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you need more info, i'm happy to give. Probably also devel had
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> problem last weekend...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Ayalon" <ayalon at blog.nl>
>>>>>>>> To: <plog-svn at devel.lifetype.net>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:32 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [pLog-svn] Process size
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> > Hi Oscar,
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Thanks for your email. But anyway, we're not allowing apache to >
>>>>>>>> grow
>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>> > big,
>>>>>>>> > it's php with e mem limit of 32. If I try to run it with a lower >
>>>>>>>> value
>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> > pages with comments are not shown (100+ comments). So do I have >
>>>>>>>> another
>>>>>>>> > choice?
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Jon: I'll true to get the logs to show you what yahoo is hitting..
>>>>>>>> > Jon2: Can you see anything on devel?
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>>>>>>>> > Van: plog-svn-bounces at devel.lifetype.net
>>>>>>>> > [mailto:plog-svn-bounces at devel.lifetype.net] Namens Oscar Renalias
>>>>>>>> > Verzonden: donderdag 14 december 2006 8:28
>>>>>>>> > Aan: plog-svn at devel.lifetype.net
>>>>>>>> > Onderwerp: Re: [pLog-svn] Process size
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > In addition to all I said before, why do you allow up to 32mb to >
>>>>>>>> each
>>>>>>>> > Apache
>>>>>>>> > project? I think that's too much, nowadays 8-12mb should be a more
>>>>>>>> > reasonable figure. If there's memory leaks somewhere in PHP (not >
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>> > code, remember that there's no way to explicitely deallocate an >
>>>>>>>> object
>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> > PHP code as far as I know), 32mb isn't exactly going to help...
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > On 12/14/06, Oscar Renalias <oscar at renalias.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >> No, we're not checking anything. From Lifetype's point of view, >>
>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>> >> don't really care about who is making the request.
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> Could it be that the Yahoo blog is performing searches? You >>
>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> >> able to see what kind of requests the crawler is making by >>
>>>>>>>> referencing
>>>>>>>> >> the timestamps you posted below from apache's error log file with
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> >> data you've got in the access log. The apache access log should
>>>>>>>> >> contain the exact request, please find it and post it here, >>
>>>>>>>> otherwise
>>>>>>>> >> we're just guessing.
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> On 14 Dec 2006, at 00:15, Ayalon wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> > Nope, there's nobody who has so many post in the mainpage as I
>>>>>>>> >> > configure everybody's blog.
>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>> >> > It's not just an issue with all bots, it's only with yahoo bot.
>>>>>>>> >> > >>
>>>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>>>> >> > >
>>>>>>>> When
>>>>>>>> >> > searching the net I found more similair problems. No check is >>
>>>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>>>> >> > >
>>>>>>>> done
>>>>>>>> >> > who is coming on the site or something??
>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>> >> > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>>>>>>>> >> > Van: plog-svn-bounces at devel.lifetype.net
>>>>>>>> >> > [mailto:plog-svn-bounces at devel.lifetype.net] Namens Oscar >> >
>>>>>>>> Renalias
>>>>>>>> >> > Verzonden: woensdag 13 december 2006 23:10
>>>>>>>> >> > Aan: plog-svn at devel.lifetype.net
>>>>>>>> >> > Onderwerp: Re: [pLog-svn] Process size
>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>> >> > I guess it's the same issue we had in devel.lifetype.net.
>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>> >> > One thing you should check is whether you've got any user who >>
>>>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>>>> > has
>>>>>>>> >> > configured his/her blog to display something like 80 or 100 >>
>>>>>>>> >> > >
>>>>>>>> posts
>>>>>>>> >> > >>
>>>>>>>> > in
>>>>>>>> >> > the front page, as that can cause performance problems. There's
>>>>>>>> >> > already a fix for that in LT 1.2, but in the meantime you will
>>>>>>>> >> > >>
>>>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>>>> >> > >
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> >> > to keep an eye on it on your own.
>>>>>>>> >> > Otherwise a crawler performs the exact same operations as a >> >
>>>>>>>> user
>>>>>>>> >> > >>
>>>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>>>> > via
>>>>>>>> >> > a browser would do.
>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>> >> > On 13 Dec 2006, at 20:48, Ayalon wrote:
>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>> >> >> Ok, I found the problem, and I tell you it's really strange >>
>>>>>>>> >> but
>>>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> true:
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >> The yahoo bot (inktomi bot) is hitting my site and then the
>>>>>>>> >> >> Cache_lite.php is for some reason using to much memory:
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >> [Tue Dec 12 00:01:44 2006] [error] [client 74.6.85.156] PHP >>
>>>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>>>> Fatal
>>>>>>>> >> >> error:
>>>>>>>> >> >> Allowed memory size of 33554432 bytes exhausted (tried to >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> allocate
>>>>>>>> >> >> 84 bytes)
>>>>>>>> >> >> in /data/www/www.blog.nl/class/cache/Cache_Lite/Lite.php on >>
>>>>>>>> >> line
>>>>>>>> >> >> 352
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >> [Tue Dec 12 00:05:27 2006] [error] [client 74.6.86.205] PHP >>
>>>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>>>> Fatal
>>>>>>>> >> >> error:
>>>>>>>> >> >> Allowed memory size of 33554432 bytes exhausted (tried to >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> allocate
>>>>>>>> >> >> 93 bytes)
>>>>>>>> >> >> in /data/www/www.blog.nl/class/cache/Cache_Lite/Lite.php on >>
>>>>>>>> >> line
>>>>>>>> >> >> 352
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >> When a normal user is hitting the site, there's nothing at >>
>>>>>>>> >> all.
>>>>>>>> >> >> When the bot
>>>>>>>> >> >> is hitting my site this is happening with a lot of the >> >>
>>>>>>>> requests.
>>>>>>>> >> >> Also the
>>>>>>>> >> >> apache process is growing so big that at the end the process >>
>>>>>>>> >> is
>>>>>>>> >> >> using so much memory that it's starting to use the swap.
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >> What can cause this problem? Now I blocked yahoo bot via >> >>
>>>>>>>> htaccess
>>>>>>>> >> >> and the problem is not there anymore. It started to happen >>
>>>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>> >> >> the upgrade to the new lifetype platform. Are there some >> >>
>>>>>>>> checks
>>>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> for
>>>>>>>> >> >> who is coming in?
>>>>>>>> >> >> Do you
>>>>>>>> >> >> need more data?
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >> Anyway it's strange and interesting, anybody an idea....??
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>>>>>>>> >> >> Van: plog-svn-bounces at devel.lifetype.net
>>>>>>>> >> >> [mailto:plog-svn-bounces at devel.lifetype.net] Namens Jon Daley
>>>>>>>> >> >> Verzonden: woensdag 13 december 2006 17:06
>>>>>>>> >> >> Aan: plog-svn at devel.lifetype.net
>>>>>>>> >> >> Onderwerp: RE: [pLog-svn] Process size
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >> On Wed, 13 Dec 2006, Ayalon wrote:
>>>>>>>> >> >>> Where can I find the post of the rewrite?
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> http://forums.lifetype.net/viewtopic.php?p=23240&highlight=htaccess
>>>>>>>> >> >> +rewrite+
>>>>>>>> >> >> error
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >>> Anyway my provider is telling me that it looks like lifetype
>>>>>>>> >> >>> >>
>>>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>>>> >>> has
>>>>>>>> >> >>> memoryleaks in various aspects of the script, starting with >>
>>>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >>> >>
>>>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>>>> >>> >>>
>>>>>>>> caching.
>>>>>>>> >> >>> Is
>>>>>>>> >> >> that possible?
>>>>>>>> >> >> It is certainly possible. I would expect to see more >>
>>>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> memory
>>>>>>>> >> >> usage in my setup if that were the case.
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >>> Is it possible to disable everything related to cache lift? >>
>>>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>>>> >>> Just
>>>>>>>> >> >>> to test some things...
>>>>>>>> >> >> Line 39 of class/cache/cachemanager.class.php. Change
>>>>>>>> >> >> $cacheEnable to false. I think that should do the trick.
>>>>>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> >> >> pLog-svn mailing list
>>>>>>>> >> >> pLog-svn at devel.lifetype.net
>>>>>>>> >> >> http://devel.lifetype.net/mailman/listinfo/plog-svn
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> >> >> pLog-svn mailing list
>>>>>>>> >> >> pLog-svn at devel.lifetype.net
>>>>>>>> >> >> http://devel.lifetype.net/mailman/listinfo/plog-svn
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> >> > pLog-svn mailing list
>>>>>>>> >> > pLog-svn at devel.lifetype.net
>>>>>>>> >> > http://devel.lifetype.net/mailman/listinfo/plog-svn
>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> >> > pLog-svn mailing list
>>>>>>>> >> > pLog-svn at devel.lifetype.net
>>>>>>>> >> > http://devel.lifetype.net/mailman/listinfo/plog-svn
>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> >> pLog-svn mailing list
>>>>>>>> >> pLog-svn at devel.lifetype.net
>>>>>>>> >> http://devel.lifetype.net/mailman/listinfo/plog-svn
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> > pLog-svn mailing list
>>>>>>>> > pLog-svn at devel.lifetype.net
>>>>>>>> > http://devel.lifetype.net/mailman/listinfo/plog-svn
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> > pLog-svn mailing list
>>>>>>>> > pLog-svn at devel.lifetype.net
>>>>>>>> > http://devel.lifetype.net/mailman/listinfo/plog-svn
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jon Daley
>>>>> http://jon.limedaley.com/
>>>>>
>>>>> The difference between genius and stupidity
>>>>> is that genius has its limits.
>>>>> -- Anonymous
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> pLog-svn mailing list
>>>>>> pLog-svn at devel.lifetype.net
>>>>>> http://devel.lifetype.net/mailman/listinfo/plog-svn
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________________________________________________
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>>>>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jon Daley
>>>> http://jon.limedaley.com/
>>>>
>>>> Music: A safe kind of high
>>>> -- Jimi Hendrix
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jon Daley
>>> http://jon.limedaley.com/
>>>
>>> If everything is coming your way then you're in the wrong lane.
>>> -- Anonymous
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
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>>
>> --
>> Jon Daley
>> http://jon.limedaley.com/
>>
>> The reason houses are made of brick instead
>> of aluminum foil is the thermal diffusivity.
>> -- Professor Shaeffer
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>
> --
> Jon Daley
> http://jon.limedaley.com/
>
> There are 2 rules for success:
> 1) Never tell everything you know.
> -- Roger H. Lincoln
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
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--
Jon Daley
http://jon.limedaley.com/
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